This is the tenth installment of the Government Accountability Office interview transcripts that were prepared pursuant to the July 2005 GAO report ” Rebuilding Iraq: Actions Needed To Improve Use of Private Security Providers .” Language likes this: ________________has provided personal security/close security, fixed-site facility security, and counter-terrorism training in support of U.S. government operations in Iraq for over one (1) year. ________________ stated that most of the company’s work is performed for the Department of State (DOS), although ________________ does provide fixed-site security for the Department of Defense (DOD). indicates that the interviewee is someone from Blackwater. Given some of the charges leveled against Blackwater/Xe in more recent years, the section on weapons and training merits reading. Also, it at least seems possible that Blackwater helped keep U.S. military personnel healthy, and possibly saved some of their lives, via unacknowledged medical services it provided, i.e., “assisted the military with medical support at some of its sites because the company often has higher qualified medical personnel than DOD.” Also, Blackwater gives its rationale for not cooperating with Aegis Defence, which had the responsibility of sharing information about PSC activity in Iraq among PSCs and to the U.S. military., has not participated in the ROC and stated that such a system does not work because _______________ reports to DOS, not DOD. ROC information provided to _______________ well after the fact and often through the ROC website and/or e-mails, which is not effective because mos _______________ mployees do not carry Blackberries (wireless communication devices). and how it really felt about Aegis: _______________ stated tha _______________ does not believe tha _______________fense Services has been successful in its mission. He noted that because PSCs are private companies registered with the Iraqi government, there is no requirement to work with _______________ Standard disclaimer: I have put in ( _____ ) to reflect those words of phrases which have been blacked out in the transcript. I have also put in the underlining as it appeared in the original transcript. As in the transcript, I have left out letters from various words, even when it seems obvious what the word is. Prepared by: Christopher Durbin Index: ________________ Date Prepared: 01/18/2005 DOC Number: 1246877 Reviewed by: Type reviewer name here DOC Library: GAO HQ Job Code: 350544 Record of Interview Title Interview with ________________ (Private Security Contractor) Purpose To discuss issues related to private security contractors in Iraq Contact Method Face to face interview Contact Place ________________ ________________ ________________ Contact Date January 13, 2005 Participants ________________ ________________ ________________ ________________ ________________ ________________ GAO Carole Coffey, Analyst-in-Charge Kate Walker, Analyst Chris Durbin, Analyst Comments/Remarks: Introduction Following a tour of the ________________ acilities led by led by the meeting participants reviewed ________________ answers to the initial list of questions provided in advance by GAO (see Work paper #12848071). These responses generated discussion and raised additional issues, which are described below. Company Description and Security Overview ________________ Operations in Iraq ________________ ated that ________________has provided personal security/close security, fixed-site facility security, and counter-terrorism training in support of U.S. government operations in Iraq for over one (1) year. ________________ stated that most of the company’s work is performed for the Department of State (DOS), although ________________ does provide fixed-site security for the Department of Defense (DOD). Currently ________________ holds nine (9) contracts in Iraq staffed by a total of 455 personnel (179 expatriates and 276 third country nationals). Page 1 Record of Interview ________________ noted that DOD provides outer-level perimeter security for the International Zone (formerly known as Green Zone) in Iraq, but within the Zone, security is provided by both DOD and private security contractors (PSCs). On ________________contracts, the overall level of security provided varies according to both contractual requirements and the environmental threat level. When changes to the threat environment occur, the client (DOS or DOD) has the ability to modify the level of security provided b ________________ an make suggestions as to the level of security that should be provided, but it is the client’s responsibility to modify the contractual requirement. This process becomes complicated, at times, on DOD contracts due to high turnover (every 60-90 days) of DOD contract officers. Iraq Security Situation ________________ stated that the security situation in Iraq continues to worsen, and they do not anticipate any improvements until at least after the Iraqi elections are held in late January 2005. Currently, the most secure areas in Iraq could best be described as “high threat”, while the least secure areas are combat zones. In addition, ________________ noted that hostilities are no longer confined to the Sunni Triangle area. Instead, new religious and tribal factions have become involved with the ultimate goal of preventing the success of national elections. Outside influences from other countries are also affecting the security situation in Iraq. also stated that “even the best area in Iraq is considered unsafe.” ________________ Views on Issues Involving PSCs in Iraq ________________ ted that the most significant issue facing ________________ is the inability to quickly and efficiently receive authorization to move weapons, ammunition, and equipment into the Iraqi theater to support U.S. government contracts. Other issues include a lack of clarification of the legal status of private security employees, which translates into liability and insurance issues, as well as the overall immature status of the Iraqi legal and enforcement mechanisms. (Additional details provided within Weapons section below.) Weapons and Training Weapons Used by ________________ ________________ stated that the weapons carried by ________________mployees are specified by individual contract requirements, but that primary systems include M-4 rifles, AK-47 rifles, and Glock-19 pistols. These weapons are consistent with those outlined in the initial end user certificate (EUC) ________________obtained from the Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA), but have varied on occasion from specific weapons ________________as requested. Challenges ________________ Faces in Acquiring Belt-Fed Weapons from Vendors As request for proposals (RFPs) are issued, they generally outline the weapons a bid-winning PSC will be required to use, including various automatic and belt-fed weapons. Although ________________ possesses a federal firearms license that enables them to acquire automatic weapons, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) regulations prohibit them from acquiring belt-fed weapons. ________________ cannot even purchase these weapons if they are registered as Page 2 Record of Interview government furnished equipment (GFE). Some examples of contractually required belt-fed weapons include the M-249 and M-240 machine guns. Under ________________contracts, these weapons become government furnished equipment at the point of sale. However, ________________cannot find a vendor who will sell it belt-fed weapons due to the previously mentioned ATF regulations. ________________described this as a Catch-22 situation. Challenges ________________ v. Faces in Acquiring EUCs and Export Authority for Weapons Another challenging situation facing ________________ concerns the process of obtaining EUCs and receiving export authority for weapons. While some contracts provide weapons and ammunition to ________________ as GFE, other contracts require the company to acquire an EUC from the contract authority to permit it to purchase weapons and apply for export authority from DOS’s Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC). Under the EUC process, delays occur at both the point of EUC issuance as well as during DDTC review of export authority requests, ________________ officials indicated ________________ pointed out that the process of receiving an EUC only to later have export authority denied is self-defeating, given that DOS is often the agency both issuing the EUC and subsequently denying the export authority (via its DDTC). ________________ indicated that the DDTC is not consistent in their issuance of export authority. Export authority is granted on a variable basis and is dependent upon the whim of the DDTC official. ________________ has had a widely ranging timeline for receiving their export authority. For example, ________________ eceived authority for buttstocks in 48 hours, but waited nearly 6 months to get their first shipment of weapons. According t ________________officials, the current process of EUC issuance and DDTC export authority review could be improved. Currently for government contracts, DOS (as contract authority) provides an EUC to ________________ which then submits the EUC to DDTC (export authority) for review. Alternatively, if DOS furnished its DDTC with a copy of the EUC at the time of contract award, and then issued the EUC to the contracting company within 72 hours, then DDTC would have advance notification of company requests, and companies would be able to meet short delivery timeframes. For civilian contracts, ________________ noted difficulty in determining who within the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior has the authority to sign EUCs for such contracts ________________ anticipates that DDTC approval in support of these types of contracts will require longer lead times and may require additional confirmation in order to gain approvals. Challenges ________________ Faces in Providing Training to Its Employees ________________ stated that providing training for certain U.S. manufactured weapons is prohibited under the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) and presents a major issue for PSCs. She noted that ITAR only covers what is exported from the U.S., so weapons shipped from Germany, for example, are exempt from ITAR training prohibitions. ________________ stated that ________________ has sought permission to train vetted employees (i.e., those possessing certain military skills or experience) from Sri Lanka, the United Kingdom, and Canada, and the company has been denied. Currently ________________ must operate under the system of providing a training roster to DDTC and waiting extensive periods of time for approval. Consequently ________________ often must rely upon its personnel vendors to provide training and/or trained products (personnel) to the company. This reliance is not ideal given that training standards vary among the home Page 3 Record of Interview countries of individual ________________mployees and by job responsibility. However ________________ noted that the quality and previous combat experience levels of ________________ employees has only improved since the company’s initial Iraq deployments. Chain of Command and Military Interaction Transition from CPA to DOS ________________ noted that since the dissolution of the CPA and subsequent handover of contracts to DOS, that ________________ project managers report to either the DOS regional security officer or assistant regional security officer for each site and/or contract. Consequently, ________________ now typically coordinates its efforts with DOS. DOD regional military commanders do not have authority ove ________________ employees, other than to provide primary direction such as designated no-go regions. ________________ Interaction with Military ________________ noted that DOD has been very helpful in terms of providing after action MEDEVAC and removal of vehicles to ________________ nd its employees. In turn ________________ assisted the military with medical support at some of its sites because the company often has higher qualified medical personnel than DOD. As far as receiving military support during an actual incident, ________________ tated this was improbable, given the short time frames associated with such activities. He did note tha ________________ has developed a robust intelligence network throughout Iraq, and this information is formally shared with DOS, which then passes it along to DOD. Interoperability between PSCs and the military remains limited due to the vary missions of these entities and the fact-that neither group shares frequencies, encrypted radios or secure communication devices. In addition, because ________________ is embedded on military installations, its employees have developed active formal and informal and informal information sharing with regional DOD personnel. While on these installations ________________ mployees are generally under the regional/local DO commander’s procedures and regulations. ________________ stated that this situation causes some tension between DOS and DOD, but such issues always get worked out, despite confusion related to everyone and every entity having different policies. This situation becomes even more complicated when military troop rotations occur and new personnel arrive and modify or implement new rules and regulations. The Project and Contracting Office’s (PCO) Regional Operations Center (ROC), Movement Coordination, and Communication Movement Coordination ________________ that ________________ oordinates personal security detail movement and personnel information with its client, DOS. The DOS regional security officer is responsible for conveying these movements to the military (but ________________ often informally notifies the military, as well). DOS maintains a list o ________________ ersonnel by site location that is updated daily based on Page 4 Record of Interview reports the company provides to DOS. After-action reports are also submitted to DOS, who may or may not pass them along to the military. ________________ oted. Interaction with PCO/ROC With regard to the PCO, the company is registered and shares information with this office directly, by e-mail, or by telephone, but it does not coordinate movements through the PCO. For its part, the PCO relates intelligence to ________________ through a website, e-mails, and telephone (if a _______________ mployee calls the PCO). The PCO is not an actionable organization. noted tha _______________ has not participated in the ROC and stated that such a system does not work because _______________ reports to DOS, not DOD. ROC information provided to _______________ well after the fact and often through the ROC website and/or e-mails, which is not effective because mos _______________ mployees do not carry Blackberries (wireless communication devices). Likewise, it would be difficult for _______________ o provide movement information to the ROC due to the fluid situation in that country, which causes timelines to be rarely followed. The lack of interoperability between the different contractors working in Iraq and the military also makes movement coordination difficult. Good working relationships have developed with the military, however, which facilitate low level coordination with DOD. _______________ View _______________ contract Performance _______________ stated tha _______________ does not believe tha _______________fense Services has been successful in its mission. He noted that because PSCs are private companies registered with the Iraqi government, there is no requirement to work with _______________ d many companies have chose to work independent _______________ Additionally _______________ tated that contractors do not feel confident in sharing information with a competitor. Interaction with the Iraqi Government _______________ Registration with Iraqi Ministries of Trade and Interior _______________ stated that _______________ registered with the Iraqi Ministry of Trade (MOT), and its application has been submitted with the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior (MOI). Some difficulties were encountered related to the $25,000 bond requirement for MOI registration, but resolution was reached, and a U.S. bank is currently in possession of this bond. _______________ pected the bond to be processed shortly to be processed next week by MOI and for _______________ registration to be processed shortly thereafter. She stated _______________ DOS contractor, was very helpful t _______________ in expediting this process. MOT and MOI Implementation of CPA Memorandum 17 _______________stated that over time, _______________ believes MOT and MOI will have the systems in place to support the efforts of CPA Memorandum 17. However, the current overall lack of an enforced legal system, stable security situation, stable banking system, and ratified constitution makes the situation challenging. In addition, _______________ noted that the CPA turned over sensitive weapons card and registration documents related to PSCs and their employees to the new Iraqi ministries. These documents Page 5 Record of Interview contain names, addresses, and fingerprints of every PSC employee in Iraq, and their turnover to the Iraqi government was probably a violation of the 1974 Privacy Act, he said. Employees and Recruitment _______________ ovided copies of five (5) slides to GAO detailing _______________ employee demographics and recruiting issues (see Workpaper #C-TC-2H). _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ _______________ Other Issues _______________ has encountered no issues related to transferring security clearances. Every _______________ mployee sent to Iraq from the U.S. has at least a secret clearance. (Top Secret clearances are not required under their contracts.) Page 6 Record of Interview PSCs are in a state of redaction (not consolidation). Only “appropriate” firms are surviving _______________ ated. The PSC Working Group convenes monthly as a private organization. Every PSC in Iraq is a part of this group. _______________ is not a financial contributor, however. This Group seeks to reduce “blue on blue” incidents (between PSCs) and “green on blue” incidents (between military and PSCs), but it has not proven effective according to _______________ The Overseas Advisory Council (OSAC) is a DOS program that provides general area travel information. _______________ has not found it to be very useful, and the Council has not convened a meeting for several months now. On behalf of _______________ offered to meet with GAO again to discuss specific issues facing PSCs related to ITAR. _______________ emains the point of contact for GAO. Page 7 Record of Interview